Etiquette of Web Linking
A short thread from alt.culture.www
Once I figured out that the NRC's demand that I get permission was a possible silencing technique, I posted to the newsgroup alt.culture.www seeking advice as to what people thought my strategy should be. I piggybacked on a thread about the Etiquette o
f Web Linking, because the most shocking part of my problem involved the demand for permission to link to the NRC's Web Page.
This is the text of my original post in alt.culture.www and the responses to it there.
It was also crossposted to alt.culture.internet and comp.infosystems.www.misc. It's quite interesting. I highly recommend you check it out
Here is a short list of the messages included here:
From cmcl2!is2.NYU.EDU!dwf4930 Sat Oct 7 16:02:02 1995
Path: cmcl2!is2.NYU.EDU!dwf4930
From: dwf4930@is2.nyu.edu (David W. Fenton)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.www,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject: Re: Further thoughts on the Etiquette of Web Linking
Followup-To: alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.www,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Date: 6 Oct 1995 20:23:50 GMT
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I'm sorry to piggyback a tenuously related question on this thread, but
I'm not sure where else to ask. If there's a more appropriate place,
please let me know.
I've just received a veiled copyright threat telling me that I needed
permission to put a link to a publisher's home page on my own home page.
Isn't this completely bogus? I found this home page through a widely
available search engine. I've agreed to eliminate the hot link currently
on my home page in order to demonstrate good faith, but I'm going to print
the text of the URL anyway.
There's another copyright question as well, since I am intending to
publish something on my web page which includes tables presenting and
commenting on data drawn from the threatening organization's downloadable
data tables. I have been very clear that my tables are based on their
data, and acknowledged them fully and clearly. I'm printing them in
order to support my contention that there is something wrong with their
data.
Isn't this fair use? I wouldn't require permission if I were publishing
this paper in an academic journal, since the information was published in
an open forum (the WWW) and I have given a full acknowledgement of the
source. Nor am I attempting to profit from my quotation of their data, and
in no way am I reducing their ability to profit from the data (except
insofar as I am criticizing it), because I have provided links to their
original data (and giving them some free advertising, I might add).
Anyone have any advice on this?
David W. Fenton
New York University
dwf4930@is2.nyu.edu
http://pages.nyu.edu/~dwf4930
From cmcl2!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!
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From: piercarl@sabi.demon.co.uk (Piercarlo Grandi)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.www,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject: Re: Further thoughts on the Etiquette of Web Linking
Date: 07 Oct 1995 15:56:30 +0100
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>>> On 6 Oct 1995 20:23:50 GMT, dwf4930@is2.nyu.edu (David W. Fenton)
>>> said:
David> I've just received a veiled copyright threat telling me that I needed
David> permission to put a link to a publisher's home page on my own home page.
David> Isn't this completely bogus?
It is -- copyright forbids copying without permission, or contributing
to copying without permission, and a reference does not amount to
copying, or contributing to copying. But intimidation goes a long way:
David> I've agreed to eliminate the hot link currently on my home page
David> in order to demonstrate good faith, but I'm going to print the
David> text of the URL anyway.
If you had felt like not being intimidated, you should have replied
something boilerplate along the lines of "I have checked and I am not
aware of having copied or contributed to the copying of any of your
materials.". That demonstrates good faith too.
David> There's another copyright question as well, since I am intending
David> to publish something on my web page which includes tables
David> presenting and commenting on data drawn from the threatening
David> organization's downloadable data tables. I have been very clear
David> that my tables are based on their data, and acknowledged them
David> fully and clearly. I'm printing them in order to support my
David> contention that there is something wrong with their data.
David> Isn't this fair use?
No it is not, but because fair use applies only to copyrighted material,
and data cannot be copyrighted data. You can make use of any data you
read in any publication, and copy it in any way you want. What can be
copyrighted is the way data is presented -- but if you rewrite the
tables there must be no problem. Indeed, even the way mere lists of
words/figures are presented are usually held by courts not be
copyrightable, because the authorship effort in the presentation is
minimal.
David> I wouldn't require permission if I were publishing this paper in
David> an academic journal, since the information was published in an
David> open forum (the WWW) and I have given a full acknowledgement of
David> the source.
Any acknowledgement is unnecessary for data, from a legal standpoint,
Acknowledging data sources is just an academic convention.
David> Anyone have any advice on this?
Consult a lawyer form proper legal advice. Many dishonest people and
companies have sued with various pretexts, from defamation to copyright
infringement, in order to muzzle critics, just an intimidatory
tactic. The law is a game of bluff first and attrition thereafter. Those
with deep pockets tend to win regardless of merit.
From cmcl2!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!
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From: callie@writepage.com (Callie)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.www,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject: Re: Further thoughts on the Etiquette of Web Linking
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 00:05:25 GMT
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In article <45438m$odt@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>,
dwf4930@is2.nyu.edu (David W. Fenton) wrote:
>I've just received a veiled copyright threat telling me that I needed
>permission to put a link to a publisher's home page on my own home page.
That is not true: You are merely pointing out their address on the web, and
that address is a matter of public record. It's like a street address in
New York ... if you are writing about the publisher and insert their
address they can't make you stop. ** BTW - which publisher?** What are
they hiding? I mean, I thought the purpose of a Web Site was publicity!
[snip]
>Isn't this fair use?
Sounds like fair use to me, unless you are reproducing the entire table
and adding no data of your own. Criticism and comment of published data
is one of the fair use provisions.
Callie
Callie@writepage.com | The Write Page for genre fiction:
http://www.writepage.com | All the books that are fun to read.
From cmcl2!arlnews!zombie.ncsc.mil!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!news.jaguNET.com!news
Sun Oct 8 16:32:45 1995
Path: cmcl2!arlnews!zombie.ncsc.mil!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!news.jaguNET.com!news
From: Diana Mertz Brickell
Newsgroups: alt.culture.internet,alt.culture.www,comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject: Re: Further thoughts on the Etiquette of Web Linking
Date: 8 Oct 1995 04:20:28 GMT
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dwf4930@is2.nyu.edu (David W. Fenton) wrote:
>I've just received a veiled copyright threat telling me that I needed
>permission to put a link to a publisher's home page on my own home page.
I'm not a lawyer (or anything remotely close), but I recently had someone
accuse me of violating their copyright by linking to their site when they
did not want to be linked. And so I looked up information on copyright
law, and there is simply *no* basis whatsoever for such a claim.
Copyright prevents people from copying, presenting, acting out, etc. an
author's work without permission. But none of the actions that are
restrcited under copyright are taken in linking to a WWW site.
To make an analogy, linking is like putting up a (truthful) notice about
the location of a restaurant in town. By posting the notice, you
aren't giving away any information that isn't already in the public domain,
and so the restaurant can have no grounds upon which to sue you.
I would caution people though, that judges might well not have a clue
about the web, and so for that reason (as well as for many others)
any sort of lawsuit ought to be avoided like the plague.
diana.
-=- Diana Mertz Brickell -=- Washington University -=- St-Louis, MO -=-
"Happiness, [Ayn Rand] said, is a state of non-contradictory joy.
Joy is the emotional content, but reason is our means of eliminating
internal conflicts among the sources of joy..." -- David Kelley
-=- diana@artsci.wustl.edu -=-=- http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~diana -=-
From cmcl2!arlnews!zombie.ncsc.mil!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!
not-for-mail Sun Oct 8 16:36:32 1995
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From: wingate@clark.net (John Wingate)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Permission to link to WWW site?
Date: 8 Oct 1995 15:29:41 GMT
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David W. Fenton (dwf4930@is2.nyu.edu) wrote:
: I've just received a veiled copyright threat telling me that I needed
: permission to put a link to a publisher's home page on my own home page.
:
: Isn't this completely bogus? I found this home page through a widely
: available search engine. I've agreed to eliminate the hot link currently
: on my home page in order to demonstrate good faith, but I'm going to print
: the text of the URL anyway.
Take a look at the copyright policy of the ACM (Association for
Computing Machinery). They treat a URL as a bibliographic citation.
There is no need for permission from the publisher of the cited work.
The policy also states "... standard bibliographic citations can be
links when processed by an appropriate intelligent agent."
See Section 3 (LINKS) in:
"http://www.acm.org/pubs/copyright_policy.html"
ACM Interim Copyright Policy
________________________________________________________________________
John Wingate wingate@clark.net
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